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TOOTSIETOYS 1922-Present-day...

Talk Model Toys » TOOTSIETOYS 1922-Present-day  

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1037 Transport 1940Jan Werner01-11-09  09:53 pm
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Ken Gray (Kennygray)
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Post Number: 162
Registered: 05-2003

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Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 10:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


No one has so far posted anything in this section, so I show a picture of the only three 1/48-scale pre-war Tootsietoy models I have thusfar in my own primarily Dinky collection. The small “Roadster” on the right (looking a bit like an American teenager’s Hotrod) is also a Tootsietoy from the “Two-Inch” series and is approximately 1/76-scale. It probably dates from the 1950s.

The black (badly overpainted) car on the left is a Tootsietoy #512 Graham Coupé with a rear-mounted spare wheel from 1933-36. This Coupé is in need of full refurbishment and requires a replacement radiator grille/bumper casting to restore its bumper and headlamps. Exhaustive enquiries in both the UK and through a number of contacts in the US failed to identify anyone who could supply a replica Tootsietoy Graham grille, but I have this week discovered that our old friends Model Car Parts in the Netherlands recently added this grille to their range of replica parts. That problem has therefore been solved.

The yellow and black car in the centre is a Tootsietoy #613 Sedan with two side-mounted spare wheels, which also comes from 1933-36.

The white van on the right is a Tootsietoy #808 Dairy Delivery Van from 1933-39. I have replaced the tyres on the Coupé and on the Van because the original tyres were falling apart.

As a Dinky Toy enthusiast my knowledge of Tootsietoy models is somewhat limited, but I was intrigued by the legendary tale that Meccano’s Frank Hornby took the inspiration for his Modelled Miniatures and later Dinky Toys from Tootsie. The earlier Tootsietoy model vehicles with all-metal wheels were quite crude representations of motor vehicles, and many of the post-war models are even cruder (a bit like the early Crescent and River Series products). The 1930s seem to have been the Golden or Classic Age of Tootsietoys, and models from the 1930’s (particularly the Graham cars and LaSalle cars) are outstanding in comparison with the earlier and later products. These pre-war models are treasured by collectors worldwide.

Tootsie-01.jpg

The second picture (below) shows the underside of these Tootsietoy models.

Tootsie-02

If we compare the first Dinky Toys with these Tootsietoys, the similarities go far beyond Mr Hornby’s admitted “inspiration”. He seems to have blatantly copied Tootsie’s manufacturing process and assembly method in its entirety. Copying Tootsie, he used a common chassis casting across the range; with different body castings representing saloon cars, coupés, town cars, and limousines. As on the Tootsies, the Dinky body is held on the chassis by the two axles. The side-mounted spare wheels on the early Dinkies are mounted in chassis slots and pinned to the body, as they are on the Tootsies. On my yellow sedan a previous owner has tied them together with a piece of wire, but that will soon be rectified. Where a rear-mounted spare wheel was fitted by Meccano (e.g. on the first-issue Dinky 36e and 36f British Salmson sports cars), a regular wheel c/w rubber tyre was again used. And the grille with its headlamps and front bumper is a separate casting swaged on to the body casting, as it is on the Tootsie. Meccano even used white tyres until 1939, reminiscent of the American Tootsietoy models.

The wheelbase on the Tootsie van is slightly longer than the wheelbase of the cars, just as the wheelbase on the Dinky 24a Ambulance was longer before being relaunched as the 30f Ambulance on the standard 30-series chassis. Tootsie also did an ambulance version of this van, with a red cross on its sides.

As a Dinky Toy enthusiast, in no way do I decry the pre-war Dinky Toys. Dinkies are my first love and I would never part with my Dinky 24b Limousine. But I find these 1930’s Tootsietoys a fascinating insight into the design of the early Dinky Toys.

For those not familiar with American motoring history, the real life Graham cars were produced by the Graham Brothers who bought the Paige-Detroit Motor Car Company in 1927. The Grahams had previously manufactured light trucks but sold that enterprise to Dodge. Until 1930, the cars were marketed as Graham-Paige automobiles but the Paige name was dropped when the 1930 range of models was launched. The Tootsietoy Grahams are modelled on the Graham Blue Streak cars launched in 1931.

A potted history of Graham cars will be found on
http://members.shaw.ca/rjsill/justwhat.htm.


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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Post Number: 379
Registered: 10-2005


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Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2008 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well Ken

I have a few Tootsie models, 2 of which I have shown below, like you when they first came to my attention only a couple of years ago, I had to get some, just to see what they were really like, the Graham's and the rearer La Salle's were particularly interesting as they showed some resemblances to the pre war Dinky 36 series which I have a particular interest in.

When ever you read any thing about these models the always say that they are toys and even to this day they still maintain that toy feel.

If anybody is interested I will dig out a few more a post them on this site.

Tootsie #0810 Mack Wrigles Gum 1935 - 1941.
Tootsie #0810 Mack Wrigleys Gum 1935 - 1941.

Tootsie 1950 Dodge Pickup
Tootsie 1950 Dodge Pickup
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dave boreham (Dollarbob)
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Post Number: 63
Registered: 08-2005

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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 12:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,

have recently acquired a couple of Grahams and would like to know a little more about the line.I have always found Dr.Forces book
on Dinky Toys a very useful guide, does anyone know of an equivalent
for Tootsietoys?

Thanks,

Dave.
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Ian Law (Ppast2)
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Post Number: 110
Registered: 08-2006

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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Dave.
There is a book on TootsiToys I have, called "Collectors Guide to Tootsietoys" by David E.Richter (ISBN 1-57432-398-9),you should find it at www.collectorbooks.com it is usefull for identification, not a lot of information.

Best Regards
Ian
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Post Number: 421
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 11:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Dave

Your best bet is eBay this is the best price I have seen 370186349779

This is how I bought my copy, as Ian said there are lots of pictures, with a half page write up, if all you want is this write up I could photo-copy it and send it on to you.

Watch out there is more than one edition I believe the latest one is the 3rd edition

Keith
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Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
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Post Number: 1598
Registered: 11-2003


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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 08:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I find very peculiar about the Mack Truck is the front grille if it can be called so. It is exactly the same as the registered IMQ logo of an Italian safty tests laboratory in Milan and is used exactly as the Kite mark in England, the UL mark in the states or the GS mark in Germany. In the Netherlands, it is KEMA-KEUR. This certifies that the appliance on which this mark is applied meets the safety standards applicable.

I would be interested to know if there is any link between the thruck's front of the IMQ logo.
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 06:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No. 0809 Graham Army Ambulance & 0808 Graham Dairy

VanAmbulance and Dairy Van

0809 Army Ambulance

0808 Dairy Van
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 06:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No. 0616 Graham 6 wheel Town car

0616 Graham 6 wheel Town car

0616 Graham 6 wheel Town cars
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 06:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No. 0806 Graham Wrecker

Graham Wrecker

0806 Grahan Wrecker
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 06:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No. 0514 Graham 5 Wheel Convertible Coupe

0514 Graham 5 Wheel Convertible Coupe

0514 Graham 5 Wheel Convertible Coupe

0514 Graham 5 Wheel Convertible Coupe

0514 Graham 5 Wheel Convertible Coupe
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 06:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No. 0513 Graham 5 Wheel Sedan

0513 Graham 5 Wheel Sedan

0513 Graham 5 Wheel Sedan

0513 Graham 5 Wheel Sedan
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 06:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No. 0615 Graham 6 Wheel Convertible Sedan

0615 Graham 6 Wheel Convertible Sedan

0615 Graham 6 Wheel Convertible Sedan

0615 Graham 6 Wheel Convertible Sedan
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 06:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No. 0511 Graham 5 Wheel Roadster

0511 Graham 5 Wheel Roadster
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 06:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

N0. 0612 Graham 6 Wheel Coupe & 0614 Graham 6 Wheel Convertable Coupe

Graham 6 Wheel Coupe

Graham 6 Wheel Coupe
Graham 6 Wheel Coupe

Graham 6 Wheel Convertable Coupe
Graham 6 Wheel Convertible Coupe

The only difference between the 2 is the convertible has a different colour paint to the roof
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 12:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An early tootsie toy car simply called:

No. 4629 Yellow Cab Sedan 1921 - 1933

Yellow Cab Sedan 1921 - 1933
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 12:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How the Americans see us

Austin Healy and Jaguar 140

These are from the 5" to 6" range many of the models were made in various sizes
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 - 12:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A couple more as the Americans see us

Triumph TR3 Roadster 1963 - 1969
Triumph TR3 Roadster 1963 - 1969

There was also a plastic one produced 1964
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Jan Werner (Janwerner)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Keith, for these very informative pictures. I always feel sympathy and admiration for these epoch-making early models from the USA. Having a look at Ebay every now and then, I have the feeling that the Americans do not appreciate these models as much as the British do appreciate Dinky, which makes them a little easier to obtain in my opinion. Of course the lack of fatigue may have made them less hard to find and therefore expensive than the pre-war Liverpool products. And then there are these curious models like Hubley, Manoil etc, remarkable products reflecting their times, meant to be playthings rather than true models. Until now I have resisted the desire to collect some of them, but one never can tell ...

Kind regards, Jan Werner
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dave boreham (Dollarbob)
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Post Number: 76
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Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,

have just finished stripping my first Tootsietoy, an 809 Civilian Ambulance.It had accquired an interesting black paint job, further embellished with a hand printed US Mail logo and yellow stripe.
When I got through the black and what little there was left of what I thought was the original cream, there appears to be a silver paint coat which, though worn, is very apparent.The wear is on the top sides and on the front of the mud guards (fenders) just where you would expect.There is no reference to silver painted ambulances any where I could find.I dont think any model maker using zamac undercoated.Has anyone any thoughts on this or ideas where I might gain some information.
While we thankfully have a great deal of information on the Dinky line There seems very little background on Tootsietoy.
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Keith Wreyford (Keith_w)
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Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 07:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are right Bob there is very little information regarding tootsie toys beyond what has been said above in "Collectors Guide to Tootsie Toys" in which there is reference to four 809 models none of these show any silver paint, the only place that silver appears are the radiators and some of the wheels, and these are as cast (no paint) I can only surmise that the previous paint jobs perhaps had been done a few times and at some point silver was used.

Best of luck with your new paint job perhaps you will show it off when completed.

Keith
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dave boreham (Dollarbob)
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Post Number: 77
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Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 11:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Keith,

presently I am aging the rad.in lemon juice before fitting.This seems rather slower with the TT spares. Since the silver paint seemed original I am leaning toward assembling the model as is rather than trying to paint.I had removed the broken rad which also appears original.When it was stripped it had a bronze finish.Possibly this was some form of promotional item.
Since I am still inept photographically,will request my daughters assistance to show the item when its complete.
I notice from his book that Mr.Richter is not averse to receiving correspondence so I think I will try to open that door.

Cheers,

Dave.

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